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Old 05-06-2014, 09:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
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still working with dallas lund on the front end?
Yes! Dallas has been a huge part of the design. I'm very impressed with the A-Arms and spindles- his stuff get's better and better. There is a lot going on in the front-end. We built a simple and strong bump-steer bracket for the rock based events and a swing-set for the short course events to increase the ackerman. The bulkhead has all the provisions for the swing-set but we aren't going to run it this season. It will be a part that needs thorough testing before racing.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:01 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Very nice. Lots of camber gain. Geometry looks very similar to mine.

Are you planning to run that IFS housing like that ? I've been planning to tilt mine back but not that far, trying to figure out how to fix the pinion angle issue.
I'm hoping we have a vibe free car! I set the motor and trans at Zero degrees, the Atlas at Zero, the Front Diff and Rear Diff at Zero. The Trans is 3" above the Atlas and the Atlas is 3" above the front diff yoke but in a straight line. The rear is a 2-piece with a High Angle Driveline carrier bearing and the midship shaft is at zero degrees but over 5" and the rear driveline is straight at the pinion.

I'm nervous about the trans to atlas shaft. It's 11" long and 13 degrees of angle, but the u-joints will all cancel out. I just don't know if it will rob tons of power or vibe like crazy. I'll post a picture as soon as I get the trans back from Harrison Race Cars where it's being dyno'd.

If it does not work right we have a backup plan but hopefully it works out because it's low and clean and allows easy maintenance.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm hoping we have a vibe free car! I set the motor and trans at Zero degrees, the Atlas at Zero, the Front Diff and Rear Diff at Zero. The Trans is 3" above the Atlas and the Atlas is 3" above the front diff yoke but in a straight line. The rear is a 2-piece with a High Angle Driveline carrier bearing and the midship shaft is at zero degrees but over 5" and the rear driveline is straight at the pinion.

I'm nervous about the trans to atlas shaft. It's 11" long and 13 degrees of angle, but the u-joints will all cancel out. I just don't know if it will rob tons of power or vibe like crazy. I'll post a picture as soon as I get the trans back from Harrison Race Cars where it's being dyno'd.

If it does not work right we have a backup plan but hopefully it works out because it's low and clean and allows easy maintenance.
If i understand the midship right there is a compound angle there. the trans to t-case one will be fine, lots run that way no issue.

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Old 05-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Very awesome design! Cant wait to watch this come together in time to win some ultra4 events. We already posted info on the build on our facebook. We look forward to the electrical install update!
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I'd guess around 54" also. I think Shannon's is in that same range, but it's still a really wide single seat buggy.
its okay, hes gonna run one of these


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Old 05-06-2014, 06:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Gas tank is 22 gallons and the plan is to use that for the short course races and then add a jeepspeed style tank to the rear for longer races. Should get 45 minutes out of a 22 gallon tank.
2 minutes per gallon....not how most of us compute gas mileage.

Thanks for showing us your new build.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:33 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Looks great. What are you running for radiator cooling lines?

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:37 AM   #34 (permalink)
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2 minutes per gallon....not how most of us compute gas mileage.
No kidding Really drives home the reason why guys are putting 4 pickups, dual fuel pumps, trapped doors, accumulators, etc. in their fuel delivery systems. That's a large volume of liquid to be precisely delivered in race conditions.

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Old 05-07-2014, 10:19 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Looks great. What are you running for radiator cooling lines?

Mike
That's a good question- I really researched the hose and fittings available before making a decision on how to plumb the car. It cost us a couple races having hose failures and I don't want that to happen again.

I decided on purchasing a Brown and Miller hose crimp machine and make everything in house. It's a nice unit to say the least...and the hose is so light yet stronger than all the comparable hose in pressure and temp ratings. It's also much smaller on the outside diameter than comparable hoses of the same ID. Only downside...expensive!!

When I get ready to plumb it I'll take pic's or show a video of how the crimping machine works...I still have to figure it out
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:15 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:46 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I like the step down on the lower front A-arms. Thanks for sharing, this build looks sick! I bought Lances old car, what does this A-arm change do?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:24 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:35 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I like the step down on the lower front A-arms. Thanks for sharing, this build looks sick! I bought Lances old car, what does this A-arm change do?
Does your new car have the Wild West IFS setup? Jason?
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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That's a good question- I really researched the hose and fittings available before making a decision on how to plumb the car. It cost us a couple races having hose failures and I don't want that to happen again.

I decided on purchasing a Brown and Miller hose crimp machine and make everything in house. It's a nice unit to say the least...and the hose is so light yet stronger than all the comparable hose in pressure and temp ratings. It's also much smaller on the outside diameter than comparable hoses of the same ID. Only downside...expensive!!

When I get ready to plumb it I'll take pic's or show a video of how the crimping machine works...I still have to figure it out
What type/style of hose did you have issues with? If you would share. Where they field serviceable type hoses?
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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J's replys might be sporadic for now. Wrench-a-thon happening!
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:23 AM   #43 (permalink)
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What type/style of hose did you have issues with? If you would share. Where they field serviceable type hoses?
Had a trans cooler line come apart at the Miller Motorsports race. It was an AN non crimped race hose from a notable hose and fitting manufacture...Must of been shotty work who ever put the hose together
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:06 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I just read this in the DrivingLine article and wanted to verify it to be correct.

“The packaging is so much better with independent suspension,” he shares. “Instead of the engine and chassis all being above the axle with enough room for uptravel, the differential is fixed so you can put everything lower in the car.” He also explains that not all IFS are created equal. The front suspension on his new car provides 40 degrees of steering angle and uses angled lower control arms to maximize ground clearance, all while cycling nearly 20 inches of wheel travel with Fox 2 ½-inch diameter coilovers and huge 3 ½-inch 7 tube bypass shocks.

I think that is the first time I've seen an IFS Ultra 4 car claim to have that much steering and wheel travel combined. Is that correct or an error in the DrivingLine article.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:13 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I can believe it with the group of people behind this build. I don't know what the outer cv used on this is capable of but, jayson Miles from tubeworks just posted on Fb a mid board hub that is used on pro 4 claiming 85°
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:25 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I think that is the first time I've seen an IFS Ultra 4 car claim to have that much steering and wheel travel combined. Is that correct or an error in the DrivingLine article.

Physically, and combined, it is there. Whether you would want to stand on the gas hard at the combined extremes is another issue...and time will answer that. Having this much stimulates a lot of garage/engineering talk about how far to turn before having to double grip the steering wheel. Boot angle at speed, and crawling. And yes, the Rack is..."not normal." Most of the durability may be based on the effectiveness of the limit strap...Things get sketchy fast at that point.

Not totally sure about the CV's, but they look real Bad A--. Seems wider than "normal." But who is used to looking at Series 30 style CV's and have greased one? They did go beyond design and the balls fell out........and about all for now.

J said that even with a small compromise in turning or prossibly droop, it would be so much more than previous IFS cars.
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:48 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I can believe it with the group of people behind this build. I don't know what the outer cv used on this is capable of but, jayson Miles from tubeworks just posted on Fb a mid board hub that is used on pro 4 claiming 85°
Probably = +/- vertical. Pretty good to miss the inside of the hub. That would be one big inside bearing. Expect big plunge with the midboard. Seems do-able with newer CV's, and survive a slick short track.
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:53 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I just read this in the DrivingLine article and wanted to verify it to be correct.

"He also explains that not all IFS are created equal. The front suspension on his new car provides 40 degrees of steering angle and uses angled lower control arms to maximize ground clearance, all while cycling nearly 20 inches of wheel travel "

I think that is the first time I've seen an IFS Ultra 4 car claim to have that much steering and wheel travel combined. Is that correct or an error in the DrivingLine article.

It is correct.

We got Farravanti's IFS close with 19" travel and 38* steering, but was able to tweak things to get a little further; but only with a swing set. Those type of numbers will be hard to get with just a rack and keep the bump steer down to a decent level. We do have some more experimenting to do, so J is running a rack adapter to start the season and that will limit him back a couple degrees from the 40* numbers stated in the article.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:01 AM   #49 (permalink)
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J's replys might be sporadic for now. Wrench-a-thon happening!
Hey who said you could take a break from the mill and lathe?
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:19 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Hey who said you could take a break from the mill and lathe?
I had a pretty good idea about all the special little parts that can be made to make a build and maintenance better. Once the building crew found out that "I have a dream" could happen right there and then, there was/is no compromise. It is also helpful to be working with the best parts and support in the industry!

I kind of knew a build like this would come along in "J's garage." He has been collecting some pretty impressive tools and equipment to get the special jobs done...and to repair most anything as a race gets closer. He also knows how to use them! Actually it is hard to stop him from doing the work himself instead of delegating. It is all fun and challenging to him.

3AM, and the garage still had the light on! "Trout is a madman." Not my quote but for real! Several have spent days and evenings moving this forward. Good, fun, and additive thought group.
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