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Old 04-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I heard a rumor that the DOJ is making their decision this Monday and it looks like a temp. closure for 1 year?

Can anyone verify?
I have heard the same.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Great, right when I was planning to run Deer Valley for the first time this summer . Just will increase traffic on the major trails these same groups want to close. Hmm... Planned?
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Deer Valley/Strawberry Closed?

I have heard the same rumor. Sadly I'm pretty sure the rumor is true. It's amazing how this can all be done behind our backs until the end.... BS if you ask me. This just means when this "year" closure is up we need to be ready to do whatever it takes to make sure it's opened again


Like somebody else said. This is gonna increase traffic on other trails......... Great
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtuleas View Post
I have heard the same.
You suck

Quote:
Originally Posted by connor0770 View Post
I have heard the same rumor.
Why do we hear about this stuff so late in the game???

Are we just gonna keep rolling over? Is someone going to go for an injunction?
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:06 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What's even worse is the uneducated wheelers will continue to use the trail and urged lead to t''s closure

There's gotta be something we can do. Phone calls first thing tomorrow?


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Old 04-01-2012, 10:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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How do they think a 1-year closure of these trails is going to resolve the problems?

How can we stewards of the land get in to address the problem areas if the trails are closed?

The real solution to the problems is to work WITH us to go in and make the needed repairs and upgrades, not to just lock us out and look the other way.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:30 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I guess we wait for the verdict. But like Bebe said, how do we find out about this so late in the game? It's almost scary to think just how easily the Forest Service can take our access right out from under us with little notice until this late in the process. This needs to be changed.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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How do they think a 1-year closure of these trails is going to resolve the problems?

How can we stewards of the land get in to address the problem areas if the trails are closed?

The real solution to the problems is to work WITH us to go in and make the needed repairs and upgrades, not to just lock us out and look the other way.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:30 PM   #35 (permalink)
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How do they think a 1-year closure of these trails is going to resolve the problems?

How can we stewards of the land get in to address the problem areas if the trails are closed?

The real solution to the problems is to work WITH us to go in and make the needed repairs and upgrades, not to just lock us out and look the other way.
I don't think they are doing the temporary closure to try and fix the problem. They are doing it to re-evaluate the travel management plan due to the greenies filing suit that the forest service did not do enough studies on meadows and wetlands.

I relate it to Obama and the Keystone pipeline. They have been planning that thing for years and every government organization that did environmental studies on said it was good to go. But once it got to Obama's desk to sign, he said there weren't enough studies done yet on how it would effect the environment.

Like Obama, the greenies and forest service are just using the excuse of "there haven't been enough studies done yet" to get our trails closed, when there in fact have been enough studies done.

^Just speculation from the few facts I have actually gathered about the issue.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:36 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Deer Valley/Strawberry Closed?

The reason it has been hidden from us is because the FS was told to keep it on the DL. If I knew how to fight it I would. But I don't know what I can do to make a difference right now.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The FS is expecting to post a bulletin today. (Or in the next couple of days) outlining the details and latest actions. We are all just speculating until we have something to read, there really isn't anything that can be done until they post the bulletin.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:17 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Appeal because the public didn't have any say in the decision?


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Old 04-02-2012, 11:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Why would the Forest Service be told to keep it on the DL? Well put Cmarjeep, its not about working with us. The greenies know there isnt sufficient or sound evidence to support some of their claims so the next best alternative is to use the beauracracy of the Forest Service to produce temporary closures .
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:42 AM   #40 (permalink)
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As the original author of this post in my clubs forum I would like to say that all this information is available to the public on line and thought Cal4Wheel and BRC. This can all be linked back to the Route Designation process and it ensuing law suits. The USFS has nothing to do with the decision, it is in the hands of one judge. We will just have to sit and wait of his decision then take action. One of the best things we can all do is to support state and national groups like Cal4Wheel and BRC that have lawers and lobbyist that fight the fight ever day.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Does anyone else see a common theme playing out here just as it has in so many other PERMANENT trail closures nationwide?

The Forest Service fails to do their job, the green crew calls em on it and the FS ignores the initial call or (if they act) dont do enough to address the issue so the green crew sues.

The Forest Service then enters the all too familiar standard routine of doing the required studies and what not involving the suit.

Somewhere along the way, they neglect to address obscure things like evaluating meadows, waterways, sedimentation, wildlife or some other standard metric of the process in an area.

Alternately, they may fail to dot an I or cross a t on one of the standard pieces of paperwork that they have filled out so many times.

This kind of stuff makes its way to a Judge who initiates another redo or sometimes a temporary closure while the matter is further examined.

Finally, after further examination, in the end a Judge or the FS closes the area PERMANENTLY because the FS botched something else during the redo or the FS just cant find a remedy for the problems initially cited.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Does anyone else see a common theme playing out here just as it has in so many other PERMANENT trail closures nationwide?

The Forest Service fails to do their job, the green crew calls em on it and the FS ignores the initial call or (if they act) dont do enough to address the issue so the green crew sues.

The Forest Service then enters the all too familiar standard routine of doing the required studies and what not involving the suit.

Somewhere along the way, they neglect to address obscure things like evaluating meadows, waterways, sedimentation, wildlife or some other standard metric of the process in an area.

Alternately, they may fail to dot an I or cross a t on one of the standard pieces of paperwork that they have filled out so many times.

This kind of stuff makes its way to a Judge who initiates another redo or sometimes a temporary closure while the matter is further examined.

Finally, after further examination, in the end a Judge or the FS closes the area PERMANENTLY because the FS botched something else during the redo or the FS just cant find a remedy for the problems initially cited.
I agree to a point. Even if the FS did the perfect job and everything was crossed and dotted the anti-access groups would still file suits and find sympathetic judges.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The denying access/or not complying with the multiple use and sustained yield act should be first in the minds of Judges.

Guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty?

Botched study's are like shabbily performed forensics....when they fall apart under scrutiny, the Prosecutor doesn't get his conviction.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #44 (permalink)
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subscribed. Say it aint so... Whats next? Pardoes/Emigrant trail? Slickrock? I don;t recall strawberry crossing any streams that do not have a bridge.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #45 (permalink)
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subscribed. Say it aint so... Whats next? Pardoes/Emigrant trail? Slickrock? I don;t recall strawberry crossing any streams that do not have a bridge.
The big meadow on the Cable Lake side is the area that is more then likely in question.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:34 PM   #46 (permalink)
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The big meadow on the Cable Lake side is the area that is more then likely in question.
thought of that, but the 'road' up past the solar facility headed north and up in elevation is a well designated, packed gravel route. We don't have to get anywhere near the meadows. Stay on the trail and its all OK. Or not...
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The big meadow on the Cable Lake side is the area that is more then likely in question.
So then why not re-route instead of closing?

Not directed at you Matt, but why is closure the only option? Why do we not sue for the right to make it right instead of just agreeing with them that it's got to be closed?

Heck, if there is damage it's already been done, who cares if it take another year or two to remedy it permanently?
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:40 PM   #48 (permalink)
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subscribed. Say it aint so... Whats next? Pardoes/Emigrant trail? .
next?
dont look now...

here is that list posted but with the trail names for most of them

Cosumnes Head
Dear Valley 4WD
Pardoes 4WD
Leoni
Leek Spring Valley
Stockton Camp
Mud Lake 4WD
blue lake to meadow lake
Upper West Panther
Prothro Headwater
Jerre
Richardson Lake 4WD
Bunker Meadow
Mckinstry Lake
Dry Lakes
West Robbs Peak
Crystal Shortcut
47 milestone
Mcmanus
?
North Shanty Spur
Strawberry Creek
Bryan Creek
Upper Long Canyon
Rocky Road
Middle Long Canyon
Jim Quin Spring
South Beanville Creek
Scoits Creek
Long Canyon 4WD
Mule Canyon
Schneider Camp 4WD
Pebble Ridgw
Devils Gate Summer Home
woods lake?
motorcycle trail strawberry to Lovers leap
motorcycle trail behind little round top
Buck meadows motorcycle trail
motorcycle trail out of Allen camp
motorcycle trail north of Silver Lake
Mud lake trail
motorcycle trail south of mud lake
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:55 PM   #49 (permalink)
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next?
dont look now...

here is that list posted but with the trail names for most of them

Cosumnes Head
Dear Valley 4WD
Pardoes 4WD
Leoni
Leek Spring Valley
Stockton Camp
Mud Lake 4WD
blue lake to meadow lake
Upper West Panther
Prothro Headwater
Jerre
Richardson Lake 4WD
Bunker Meadow
Mckinstry Lake
Dry Lakes
West Robbs Peak
Crystal Shortcut
47 milestone
Mcmanus
?
North Shanty Spur
Strawberry Creek
Bryan Creek
Upper Long Canyon
Rocky Road
Middle Long Canyon
Jim Quin Spring
South Beanville Creek
Scoits Creek
Long Canyon 4WD
Mule Canyon
Schneider Camp 4WD
Pebble Ridgw
Devils Gate Summer Home
woods lake?
motorcycle trail strawberry to Lovers leap
motorcycle trail behind little round top
Buck meadows motorcycle trail
motorcycle trail out of Allen camp
motorcycle trail north of Silver Lake
Mud lake trail
motorcycle trail south of mud lake

Wow that is one heck of a list. The trail from Lower Blue lakes to Meadow Lake is one of our favorites. There is nice day use areas at Meadow lake and that "Trail" is not even that......I've drive out Subaru Outback to Meadow lake.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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So then why not re-route instead of closing?

Not directed at you Matt, but why is closure the only option? Why do we not sue for the right to make it right instead of just agreeing with them that it's got to be closed?

Heck, if there is damage it's already been done, who cares if it take another year or two to remedy it permanently?
Closure is not the only option, but it is up to the judge to determine what the course of action will be. If temporary closer is the ruling, then it is up to the FS the determine which trail goes though a "wetland, meadow", then possible reroute or permanent closer.
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